She is cofounder and chair of Muslim American Leadership Alliance (MALA), which works to empower these US citizens within their communities by sharing their stories and “normalizing” that one can be Muslim and American at the same time. Bottom line against stereotypes is as well: Muslims are not a “monolith”. MALA is the first organization to collect oral histories of Muslim Americans, which are then archived in the Library of Congress of the United States.

She avoids pointing at anyone specific with the finger but acknowledges that bigotry and hate not only against Muslims, but also against other minorities, has risen in recent years in the US. This week she is visiting Spain to share her experience at Madrid’s Casa Árabe and at Barcelona’s Blanquerna Observatory.

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What does being both Muslim and American mean nowadays?

Being Muslim and American is a chance and a space right now. We’re in interesting times. From my perspective, I was born and raised in the United States, both of my parents are Muslim, I identify as a Muslim, but I also come from a background where my siblings are married to a Catholic or a Hindu. I’ m first generation, I grew up with American values, but also with a strong sense of my Muslim heritage, culture and identity.

I think one of the things being Muslim and American right now is that we are living in one of the best countries, where there is freedom, there is ability to practice, to pick up your identities, to assimilate, whether you are first generation, whether you are refugee, whether you are immigrant or if you are fourth generation of converts.

I think the challenge right now in the United States is that there is discrimination, there is bigotry… With over 750 stories that we have collected in MALA over five years, one of the things which does come up is discrimination, issues with assimilation, dual identity or multiple identities, trying to find belonging, within your community and outside… The whole purpose of having pride in being Muslim and American is the cornerstone of our work, so that people can speak freely and openly about their own experiences, whatever it may be, whether you are secular, whether you are orthodox…

“Having pride in being Muslim and American is the cornerstone of our work”

Is it usually not possible to speak freely about one’s religion? Do people feel frightened to do so?

I don’t think they feel frightened. I think they feel more that, it’s almost like that’s just not my only layer of identity. I don’t just want to be known as a Muslim, I’m also Iranian, Turkish or Bosznian, and I’m also a female, and a mum… Muslim Americans, especially, are not a monolith. They’re one of the most diverse groups in the United States: socially, politically, economically… it’s the broadest social demographic [group].

Your siblings are married to a Catholic and a Hindu. With the current atmosphere, sometimes it seems this together living of different religions or beliefs is not possible, but they are a clear example that it is.

There is actually a quite large number of stories that we have collected of people of mixes heritage. One of the things that I have seen from my experience it that diversity and coexistence of Muslim Americans is phenomenal, wonderful, and it’s possible.

I have the impression that in previous years Muslims rather stayed silent and hid from telling others what their beliefs are. But this seems to be reversing now and Muslims are going public, like going out of the closet. Was there a need for it?

That’s actually a wonderful observation, and to be honest, when we started MALA we would get two types of people, that would be like ‘well, I’m Muslim, [but] I don’t want that label and I don’t want to identify myself, just because of all the baggage in the media, because I don’t want to be associated with this stereotype or this stereotype’.

I think that people now are a lot more at ease, because there is community cohesion, support, social media [and] people’s voices and representation is heard. People are a lot more forthcoming and also have, still, pride in saying that they are Muslim, which is beautiful, because you can be Muslim, American… you could have multiple layers of identity and you could still exist and that’s who you are, that’s who I am.

Zainab Khan presents herself as a “human being” who is Muslim, among many other things. © Salam Plan

Is it also, may be, the reaction to the hate speech of politicians like Donald Trump against Muslims?

I think that in the United States there is a very polarizing social-political climate. Hate crimes have been under increase, and not just for Muslims, but for Jewish people, for people of faith and for people of minority backgrounds.

There is a lot more need for representation in politics and public policy, in civic engagement… It’s wonderful to see Muslim Americans run for office and to see the richness of the diversity of elected officials that we have in the United States compared to other countries. But we still have a long way to go to continue to build bridges, to continue to show solidarity and social cohesion, and also to celebrate our differences and our similarities. When we look at both, I think that’s when we are able to really see that this is how we live together: with shared values.

“You can be Muslim, American, have multiple layers of identity and still exist”

Islamophobia is becoming the new normal, isn’t it?

Hate is never supposed to be the norm. And any type of bigotry, prejudices… that is something that we have to really grab by the horns and address it. The rhetoric around minorities, groups, communities… are labelling. Putting Muslim Americans as a monolith… These are all harmful towards society.

We can continue by showcasing the diversity, the leadership, the incredible amount of recognition and what communities have done… The Muslim American communities… it is a community of very highly educated resilient people.

What is the main prejudice you are tired of listening to and that you feel it is the main issue we all need to address?

That all Muslims are a monolith. That because you are a Muslim, you must be x, y and z. You must be ultra-rigid, or you must be an immigrant, or you must be a refugee, or you must be uneducated, or you must be close-minded. These are all prejudices that we hope to dispel and continue building bridges.

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La entrada Zainab Khan, mentor of Muslim Americans: “Muslims are not x, y and z. We are not a monolith” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

Ramia Chaoui shows and speaks about all kind of things there: from make-up or how she got to know her husband to sharing the traditions of her other homeland, Morocco, or the problems Muslim people -like her- face in Spain.

She was recently invited to open a high-level meeting to counter Islamophobia, organized by the European Commission in Brussels. “We need to stop asking people like me how to integrate, because we don’t need to integrate in our own home”, she requested in front of the Justice European Commissioner, Vera Jourova, and other politicians representing European countries.

“We need to stop asking people like me how to integrate, because we don’t need to integrate in our own home”

She speaks with Salam Plan on the phone from Barcelona before going to work. For all those afraid of Muslims, Ramia points out “Islam is totally compatible with democracy, it just needs to be well understood”. For her, “being Muslim is trying to be a better person for oneself and for the others and everything that surrounds us”.

In your videos, you always greet by saying “salam zyonat”. What does that mean?

“Hi, beauties”. “Zeyn” is like beauty. I liked to open with something in Arabic, which also represents another part of my identity and my culture. I like to say hello that way, because it defines me. “Salam” means “peace” and is part of the Muslim greeting, and than all my videos are in Spanish, which is my mother tongue and the one I can better express myself in.

What made you open your own YouTube channel?

The lack of representation in mass media, searching for a place where I could express myself and talk about the issues where nobody listened to us, to have there my version of events without it being sweetened or censored.

Also, a little bit from an educational perspective. I listened to many questions around me about things I thought people knew well, stereotypes. Whenever I talked to new people who were hardly in touch with Muslims, I was very surprised to see the image they had about that part of the society.

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On Ramia Schannel you talk about all kind of things. What are the issues you like to speak more about?

At the beginning I made a lifestyle and entertainment channel, about how to combine the spiritual life with the non- Muslim Western normal life like any other girl of my age.

Now I have changed the focus to separate it a bit from the personal sphere and take it more to the activist field [against Islamophobia], but in a lighter way, not so hardcore. I have young followers and don’t want to be preachy.

I try to make the videos entertaining but at the same time with a message or moral of the story, or to explain something about Muslims, a Muslim festivity… so that people have a window to look into the life of a Western Muslim person and how our life is.

Earlier you said that one of the reasons to star your channel was tackling stereotypes about Muslims. Which ones would you highlight?

To get turned into a foreigner, that is one of the things which annoys me the most. For example, me living in Catalonia, that people speak to me in Spanish or slowly so that I can understand them… Those kind of things which people may do with good intentions, but I belong to the people who think that we’ve been here for a long time already and migration is nothing recent.

The fact that people are surprised that you have a degree, that you speak well the language, that you don’t have any accent…

And what affects me the most is the issue with the lack of equal opportunities and the discrimination, especially in the labour field for Muslim women.

“One of the things which annoys me the most is to get turned into a foreigner. Me living in Catalonia, that people speak to me in Spanish or slowly so that I can understand them”

In fact, there is a video in your channel where you explain that you are considering to take off your hijab.

It’s something you always bear in mind. Not now, but it’s true that all these years I have been wearing it, you ask yourself and weigh up: “Wow, it is really affecting me”. But well, than you remember why you put it on in the first place and what it means to you and you try to look ahead.

But that doesn’t mean you don’t have moments of doubts and difficulties… and understanding that other women face the same difficulties and finally take it off due to social pressure.

What difficulties have you encountered due to the hijab?

Mainly, being able to do job interviews and getting a job. They will choose someone who doesn’t wear it if you are equally qualified, or not so equally: you may be a bit more prepared or may be speak more languages. Nevertheless, the scales seems to tip to the other side.

The issue about doing a traineeship to get your degree, I get many messages from girls. Many of them see themselves forced to take it off or not doing the traineeship. I think Education should come first. Later in the labour market, I can understand that a company may be free to choose who it hires. But if a company chooses to offer traineeships to the students, it shouldn’t make a difference: they’re not your workers, they’re people who come to learn and will leave.

Me personally, I have seen myself obliged to accept another king of jobs, because I couldn’t choose the same way my fellow students did. I thought that was the way it goes. Although it might not have convinced me, I took the job to have one.

“The issue about doing a traineeship to get your degree… I get many messages from girls who see themselves forced to take the hijab off “

You have more than 38,000 followers. What kind of profile do they have?

They’re mainly female, 80% approximately. Spaniards and from other European countries, also from Mexico. Between 18 and 30 years old.

What kind of questions or comments do they have?

More than that, I think they see me a bit like an inspiration. If you see you’re not the only one facing problems or suffering, you don’t feel so lonely.

What happens sometimes is that these things stay in the community or within the family, you don’t speak about them that much. And you think it isn’t happening to nobody else and that you are the unlucky one.

I think that sharing and speaking about it, helps to fight against it. I try to motivate. There are girls who have even asked me why they should study if they’re not gonna get a job anyway. Loosing motivation like this is worrying.

I try to change the approach of the youngest girls. Feeling ashamed of your culture, of your religion, because they’re always speaking bad about it, because you don’t see positive examples, no examples of people who overcome [the problems]… But to see someone who -achieving more or less- follows her dreams, trying to change a bit -as much as possible-, I think it is good for our young ladies.

“There are girls who have even asked me why they should study if they’re not gonna get a job anyway”

You just mentioned something key, I think: that some people feel ashamed due to what is happening around them.

I have seen girls in their first adolescence years telling their mothers not to pick them up from school because she wears the veil and they don’t want to be seen with them.

Or now I see my little sister, who is very proud of her culture, but I remember that when I was little, I felt ashamed and didn’t want to go to school after our holidays in Morocco with henna on my hands. I tried to wash it off, because the kids told me it was pooh and laughed at me.

On the contrary, I now see generations, the youngest, who are very proud of their culture, with henna on their hands, wearing the veil… I think we should appropriate our culture again and be proud of who we are. Because it’s true that sometimes we have tried to hide to get unnoticed, without causing a stir: go to work, feed our children, sleep and back again to the beginning.

And it’s our generation now who is vindicating more the richness of having a diverse identity, a diverse origin, being from here but also from there and being a richer person thanks to that.

“Sometimes we Muslims have tried to hide to get unnoticed, without causing a stir: go to work, feed our children, sleep and back again to the beginning”

You recently shared your experience opening a high-level meeting in front of the Justice European Commissioner, Vera Jourova, and other politicians of the EU countries. There were also other Muslim activists and civil representatives. Do you think it was useful?

I am always very optimistic. I don’t know if I’m so optimistic that I’m naïf, but I want to think that it was indeed. And if it is useless from the political point of view, I think that the civil society there are loads of things being done. I was very happy and proud to see that representation, mainly a female representation, in that meeting. Whenever I see Muslim ladies, so trained and ready to fight, I feel proud as if it was a personal achievement. Whether it is useful or not, I have learned a lot.

Ramia Chaoui holding the opening speech at a high-level meeting in Brussels. © Salam Plan

That meeting was in the European capital. There are Europeans afraid of Muslims not respecting democracy. What would you tell them?

I’d tell them that Islam is totally compatible with democracy; it just needs to be well understood.

I think there is much misinformation or confusion around terminology related to Islam. Nobody studies it in depth, the only interest is to take those paragraphs or alleyahs [Q’ran verses] out of context which may benefit someone politically to sow fear and get votes. In the end, it’s this manipulation and using Islam as a weapon to get personal benefit.

In fact, a well understood Islam promotes democracy.

“A well understood Islam promotes democracy”

Why?

For example, if we simply focus on the prophet Muhammad’s life, we can see that he always consulted people surrounding him, he always asked for advice, and that being -as we understand it- God’s envoy. One of the main pillars of democracy is the public query, what the majority thinks.

In the recent regional elections in Andalusia (southern Spain), Vox’s party got 12 seats and Muslims are a key part of their politics. In their election platform, they devote a chapter to Muslims under the title “Defence, Security and Borders”.

[She laughs slightly]. Ok, how funny, how nice. I prefer to think that the majority of people doesn’t read the election manifesto nor is very well informed of what they vote, because otherwise, we wouldn’t drift in the current direction.

The defence of Spanish unity doesn’t need to go hand in hand with harming and loosing civil rights nor with more confrontation. I believe people who voted for Vox voted for Spanish unity.

Vox stands for issues like “shutting fundamentalist mosques” or the “expulsion of imams who spread fundamentalism, the despise of women or Jihad”.

With “expulsion” I guess they mean foreign imams, but there are Spanish imams. What do we do with that? And “despise of women”, it’s them who want to repeal the bill on gender violence. I think it is a cheap, simplistic and superficial populism.

How do you think Islamophobia Will evolve in the next years in Spain?

I think there is more consciousness and people are getting to know more about Islamophobia. I think it will keep that direction. I hope politicians will be more careful in their discourses. I hope the situation will get better: the integration of so many women with veil who are already working, including me; that normalization of seeing Muslim women in each and every sphere of society.

Your channel is also for non- Muslim people who want to know more. If you were to explain in just a few words what it means to you to be Muslim, how would you describe it?

Being Muslim is being like any other person, but having in the centre of his or her daily priorities -or values- to try to be a better person for oneself and for the others and everything that surrounds us; also being beneficial and contribute to society.

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La entrada Ramia Schannel, the Muslim YouTuber from Spain who advised the European Commission se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

Bosch is head of the Attention and Assessment Unit for People Affected by Terrorism (UAVAT) in Spain, which includes psychologists, psychiatrists and lawyers. Since it its foundation last February, they have treated around 170 people affected by the attacks in Catalonia (Spain), which occurred one year ago. All of them Spanish victims, but there were also many victims of other countries. 16 people died, more than 100 were injured and many more were hurt psychologically, according to Sara Bosch. 90% of victims are survivors and 80% of all the victims still suffer a psychological injury, she says.

On the ‘International Day of Remembrance of and Tribute to the Victims of Terrorism’ this 19^th of August her advice may be useful to all of the victims of terrorists around the world and people around those who suffer.

Are there victims of the attacks in Catalonia one year ago starting to ask you for help now?

Sure! Of course, of course. (When we started contacting last February) all the people who had gone to the emergency services of the attacks, there were people who had not yet received psychological attention. They had been holding themselves, struggling to cope with a psychological situation and waiting for time to heal them. But we are seeing people who still have a lot of psychological affectation, who have not received any treatment yet.

What needs do victims have or what problems do they face?

In the first place, when we think of victims, we all think first of the ones who were murdered, and therefore we quickly connect with the relatives of the deceased. After that, the physical wounded. Later, we began to think that there were many people there who might not have had an impact on the body, but that it is a traumatic experience and it is very likely that these people are emotionally affected.

At the beginning, we also understand that there is a lot of psychological affectation in a large number of people, but that somehow that will later heal on it own. A bit like when we get a punch. The bad thing is that sometimes we don’t recover as expected, and than we start considering: “what if there is something broken in me?”

People who receive that psychological punch, at first cannot sleep, they see the images continuously (on their minds), the sounds of the sirens, they are hypersensitive, they are afraid, have anxiety crises, they cry, they are disconnected from their day to day, they behave very strange … The (initial) psychological affectation is a chemical reaction: there is an explosion of neurotransmitters at the cerebral level, which are the ones that generate those symptoms. Therefore, it is something physical too.

“The initial psychological affectation is a chemical reaction which has to calm down with time, but in a 60% of cases that doesn’t happen and people suffer a psychological injury”

That chemical explosion has to calm down, but there are people where that doesn’t happen. There is a percentage of those people, which can be perfectly 60%, that will break down (, like a sportsman). They are going to suffer some psychological injury, which is when those reactions remain: they cannot sleep -insomnia is very characteristic-, they are still very afraid, they still have a state of anxiety that doesn’t go away, they have not sit down in a terrace again to have a beer, they have not gone back to the cinema, they do not want to enter a supermarket, they have not taken the tube again…

What does the first anniversary of the attack mean to them?

They know that there is a lot of media attention and that there is also a social memory, it is a call to their memory. It is something that they are getting through with the help of professionals, trying not to be harmed more from the outside. But it still means getting through an experience that is very slow and very painful to digest and suddenly there are reminders, images … especially in the media, with that nightmare. They do not remember, they experience it (again).

Therapeutically we are always going to recommend facing that memory, so that it becomes something that can be emotionally tolerated and that instead of reviving it, it may remain a painful memory.

Victims do not remember the attack, they experience it again

There are people who have done that process and are relatively capable of being exposed now to that homage and there are people who are still in a very early process and avoid seeing those images, because it would be an overdose for them. It’s each person the one who chooses.

What practical advice do you give to the victims at this point, bearing in mind that each person and each circumstance is different?

Basically, we make them aware that they can choose, that they do not feel obliged to anything. Sometimes, it’s a bit of giving them permission to do those things that can make them feel better.

Without that permission, do they feel guilty?

Yes, they feel guilty. Especially towards their relatives, because there are many who, when time has passed, don’t understand why you are not feeling well: “nothing happened to you, you were not injured, you are alive” (, they would tell the psychological victims, the survivors). It’s not that they do not want to forget, it’s that they cannot. They feel misunderstood.

Even they themselves do not understand why they are not OK and consider it a sign of weakness, for example. And it is not a sign of weakness, nor is it stubbornness of not wanting to overcome something.

Do not force yourself to feel OK, respect that you are not OK. It has nothing to do with being weak or not wanting to get over it

There is a lot of incomprehension, as much as of the victims towards themselves, as of the relatives, the close friends, the bosses … We tell them: do not force yourself to feel well, understand if you are not OK, respect that you are not OK. This is a slow process. Look for what can make it as easier as possible to feel calm and, above all, if you have not yet started a treatment, go to a professional – basically a psychologist – to help you go through this whole process, because it is a psychological injury. It has nothing to do with being weak or not wanting to get over it.

And what can the people who love them do to stop messing up when they are trying to help?

Accompany them in their feeling, the same way we tell the relatives of the deceased that we join with them in their grief. We need to do the same with those who got injured. Therefore, if they prefer not to talk, then we do not speak. If they feel bad, we do not have to tell them anything, hugging them is enough.

“Do not question the victims, do not to judge them and do not give them advice. There is no magic phrase. Simply, be there and hug them”

Let us remind them that we are there, that we are in a safe place, and we do not need any special phrase. And try to be available to what they may need, without asking them how they are all the time. Supporting them with empathy.

Do not question them, do not to judge them, and do not give them advice. It is simply being there, at their disposal, and not looking for the magic phrase, because the advice does not help. They advise themselves.

And the media and politicians, who perhaps are the ones who treat this issue the most in the public sphere? What can we or they do to not make it more painful and help as much as possible?

Media, on the one hand, have the need of giving information and therefore it is true that these images of the van (at the attack in Barcelona) … is a repeated image. But it is true that if we consider respecting the victims or not hurting them, we should not issue them.

There are victims (for whom) talking about their experience (helps them) or they have a message to give us. I would ask media to say the full message of those affected, just as the victim wants to express it. Because what has been happening is that many of them do the interview, (that) has been an extra effort for them but they had the expectation that it would serve something. And when they see it later, they tell you: “They have not said that; I told them it was very important to me.” Then: “They have only put my drama, they have only published the gruesome part.”

I believe that on the one hand it is true that it is very difficult not to give that message that they will see as morbid, but as we talk to the victims, allow them to give another message that they need to tell us.

“I would ask media to say the full message of those affected, just as the victim wants to express it”

And politicians … Errrrr, wow, how much time do we have? In a terrorist attack, unlike other crimes, a message of solidarity is generated with incredible speed and impressive magnitude. They are continuously told by politicians and everyone: “We are with you, for whatever you need …”. That generates both an expectation of support, and when it is not there later, after months, or when they begin to process their needs with the Administration… that solidarity does not disappear, it is directly the opposite: denials, denials.

What type of refusals? Of treatment, or information …?

Yes, right. Denial of treatment, fundamentally, and denial of recognition as a victim. For example, when there is an attack which has the power to grant recognition of victims of terrorism, the Ministry of the Interior in Spain will have a list of people, which will be collected from the wounded and deceased (…). For the Ministry all these people are the victims of the attack, they will be able to see exercised their rights of compensation for injuries, they can go to a psychologist if they need it … there will be no problem.

“Politicians: do not transform your initial solidarity message in denials”

The ones that worry us are those that are not in that list, because many psychological wounded do not go to the doctor. Many go to their homes and after three, four, five or six months those people cannot take it anymore, they break.

What should we never tell a victim of terrorism and what is most likely to help?

When it is about someone who has lost a beloved one, I think you should especially not give them any advice. You have to be there for what they need and offer help in practical things.

Like solving paperwork or buying food, if they do not feel strong enough.

Exactly. And allow them to feel their pain, even if we do not like to see it.

And in the case of psychological victims, the survivors?

Do not remind them that “fortunately nothing has happened” to them. Do not ask them to make efforts, because when a person has a psychological injury she does many more efforts than we think.

“Do not remind survivors that ‘fortunately nothing has happened’ to them. Do not ask them to make efforts, because when a person has a psychological injury she does many more efforts than we think”

Also, you need to understand that they can be very fluctuating. Maybe there are days that are worse than others. Let them know that if one day they are not feeling well, you are there to complement them. And do not try to make them explain how they feel or stop conferring them attributions that hurt them even more: “you are so and so”, “you don’t do whatever”, “don’t take it that way” … Try not to make attributions of that type, because they tend to blame themselves very easily.

Listen to them when they want and do not force them to talk.

I suppose that in the end these tips for people who are psychologically wounded are equally valid for everyone, also the physically wounded.

Sure. And something important as well about people who have a psychological affectation: it is important to help them to get back to a (certain) routine, because many of them can be in a somewhat chaotic state.

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La entrada Never say this to a victim of terrorism <br>and the best ways to help se publicó primero en Salam Plan.