Bell was director of the delegation in Jerusalem of the organization devoted to solving conflicts called ‘Search for Common Ground’. During that period, he articulated together with Palestinians, Israelis and other international experts a system which would do it possible to manage the Old City together, with sacred places for Jewish, Muslim as well as Christian people. He has also been a Canadian and UN diplomat, with missions in Lebanon, Egypt or Irak, among others.

Now he is director and co-founder of The Conciliators Guild in London. There he applies his experience in a project which aims to “bring humanity back to politics” and start a path for dialogue. “It is important to understand how we think, what we need in life and what we are after. If we don’t understand those absolute basics, life can go off in any direction, including one manipulated by political leaders, by social media… we easily fall into traps”, he tells Salam Plan on the phone during this interview.

John Bell speaks to Salam Plan when ceasefire has finally begun after eleven days of escalation of the conflict, which also caused clashes to some extent in countries like the UK or Spain. Be it either through hate speech, graffities on religious sites, actions like the cars honking against Jewish citizens in London… British monitors said antisemitic hate increased 500% and islamophobic hate 430% these days in the UK.

“If we don’t understand what we need in life and what we are after, life can go off in any direction, including one manipulated by political leaders, by social media… we easily fall into traps”

This conflict goes beyond Middle East. Why does it matter so much to citizens around the world?

I think it matters a lot because of several reasons all combined. The first is, this has gone on for too long. It’s decades that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is unresolved, and the Palestinians are under occupation. And people are fed up with it, especially as it evolved into a situation where, despite Jewish and Israelis sense of victimization, most people view Israel as a powerful country and the Palestinians as a very weak people. And therefore, the oppression is clear. It’s just time.

The other issue, though, is a bit deeper. I think it’s in people’s psyches, obviously in the Middle East, obviously in Israel-Palestine, but in the West. And in the West, because actually Israel’s creation is very deeply linked to the West. Both in terms of why Jews went to that area to begin with and the Western world helping to create Israel. So, all this is very in our psyches: there is guilt, there is anger, there’s a sense of injustice perpetrated against the Palestinians… And I think all that is playing out.

I’ll mention other two factors, that, I think, are overlaying into it: one is that there is now a growing trend across the world, global, for fighting against injustice. Whether it’s racism in the United States, injustice for refugees or injustice against the Palestinians. This is a growing trend. What I see is increased attention and concern for the Palestinians from that regard, and they are oppressed people, in my personal view.

Another more practical point, is that Jerusalem is very important. It’s symbolically more potent. And let’s not forget, that although the battle, the extreme violence was in Gaza, it was not really about Gaza: it was really about Jerusalem. Jerusalem triggered it, what Israelis were trying to do in Jerusalem triggered it, Hamas fired its first missiles about Jerusalem… Jerusalem is the symbolic totem of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and even in a religious-political level.

“Putting order into our mental house is a requisite for being, may be, more intelligently religious”

Politics and religion get mixed in this conflict, which -in the end- leads to violence and religion to get mixed as well. How could that be preventable?

In the Middle East, for Israelis in my view as well, identity is on spectrum which can be very, very purely political -example: a communist in Lebanon or Irak-, to the political religious, where ones heritage, whether Muslim, Jewish, or in fact even Christian, weaves into a political ideology.

This is part of the landscape of the Middle East, of today. For the moment, an unavoidable dimension of the nature of Middle East politics is that every single country has religious-political parties, where the party uses religious heritage to develop the political ideology.

Does this reflect well on the original premises of the religion? In my personal view, no. But many would disagree with me: they view their religion as a social justice mission as much a personal mission.

So, I think, your question is rather huge. If you want to disentangle the role of religion in politics, one has to go back to what is the actual purpose of religion to begin with. Religions in the Middle East, even scripturely, all of them -more Islam and Judaism- have had social political components described. So, it’s easy for followers to grab those and run with them in a political fashion. It’s not new, this has been done for ages.

Christians’ scripture is a bit less so, the pure scripture, but we have seen also Christians run with these things at a political level, whether it’s Crusades or otherwise.

So, the disentangle that you are talking about, requires a lot of what I call cultural work in the region to a much deeper understanding of the purpose of religion and its outlook at the world. In my view, this is a kind of hijack of religion.

Where should that ‘cultural work’ start?

I think it’s wrong for me to stall people with ‘here is a formula, run with it’. Because that is actually the opposite of what needs to be done. I think what is important, and this is the purpose of my organization ‘The Conciliators Guild’, to understand how we think, and what we need in life and what we are after. If we don’t understand those absolute basics, life can go off in any direction, including one manipulated by political leaders, by social media… we easily fall into traps.

So, I think that cultural work needs to begin with a much, much -and I’ll say ‘much’ ten times-, much better understanding of the human behaviour. Why we do X and not Y, why we think we are doing X and we are doing Y… We are really unclear about these things, we are chaotic. Putting order into our mental house is a requisite for being, may be, more intelligently religious. People have a lot of assumptions of what religion is, what its purpose is, those who play it politically as we are seeing…

I mean, look at a living example. I am personally against it, but there some of the Jews taking homes in Sheikh Jarrah or who are preventing (Muslim) Palestinians from accessing Al Aqsa mosque, which led to this whole conflict raise… Some, some [he emphathizes] where acting on a religious basis. Meaning in their religion this is correct. I don’t agree with this, but one has to wonder with them, with them what are they trying to achieve, why is it that they’re going about things this way.

These questions are not asked sufficiently, so I think the cultural work begins there. I don’t think it begins by law. It’s necessary, but in a way it’s a superficial answer. Human behaviour is more important than law and rights.

“What matters, is that a political solution is found that satisfies core needs on both sides sufficiently, but not infinitely”

Jerusalem is a holy city for Judaism, Christianity and Islam alike. It should be a place for peace, as all these religions stand for it, and yet it is a place of conflict instead.

That’s right. I have lived in Jerusalem, and it’s a city which I am very, very fond of and scared of, both at the same time.

Jerusalem is what you say it is: it is a triptrych faith city, it’s also potentially and probably should be the capital of both Israel and Palestine. And it’s also a city, meaning people just live there and they need water, electricity, schools… There are human beings living there who need normal functioning.

It’s all those things, and it needs to be attended to in all those levels.

My view is, and it is very difficult to get people off this idea, but I think it’s worth working on: as long as any single group wishes to look at Jerusalem as only theirs, the exclusivity dimension, it will be a problem. We’re sharing it in some fashion or another, a tremendous amount of work needs to be done there as the how.

Jerusalem doesn’t belong to any of the three and to all of the three. And if people can’t get their minds around that statement, with its own contradiction, people have to learn to live with these contradictions. People want simple answers: ‘this is mine’, end of story. I just think that is a fantastic emblem of how we need to think differently in the future.

You have been working for years in different projects and diplomatic delegations for peace. One of them was with the NGO ‘Search for Common Ground’ in Jerusalem. What did you find?

I worked on a very long project in the Old City of Jerusalem, which is important, because that is where all the major holy sights are. What we did was a project developed by Canadians working closely with Israelis, Palestinians and other international experts. We designed a ‘special governance system’ for Jerusalem Old City, with the heavy involvement of third parties, non-Israelis, non-Palestinians in the security, the archeology and some of the other managements of the hot issues in the Old City. I still think that has value, it is part of the mix.

Further work needs to be done on something, which is very difficult to tackle, but critical: how does one look at the religious attachments to the Old City and the holy sights in a different way. And then, how does that translate politically. I know people who have begun to work on it. Whatever is done on that level, it needs to pursue mutual needs’ satisfaction: Jews, Muslims and Christians, all have to be satisfied sufficiently in the Old City through that results.

Is that possible? My view is yes. It can be. The issue is not if they can be satisfied, the issue is how extensive are their demands. If their demands are too intense, too extreme, than you cannot get mutual needs’ satisfaction. One party dissatisfied, and that’s a cause of conflict. Then, it’s a law of life: you will have fighting, killing. Whereas if you do have an arrangement that is satisfactory to the basic needs of the sides, then there would be much more calm.

“As long as any single group wishes to look at Jerusalem as only theirs, it will be a problem. We’re sharing it in some fashion or another; work needs to be done there as the how”

Benjamin Netanyahu and Mahmud Abbas have been the leaders of both sides for very long now, and with no elections on the Palestinian side and with too many elections in Israel (five general elections in just a couple of years). Do you think new leaders could possibly help to restart a path to peace?

Yes, with all respect to these individuals. I hope that Palestinians and Israelis now know who these people are and what they can do. Because they have been around for a while, so they’re know entities. Their capacities, their wishes, their strengths and weaknesses are known. And we are where we are. Therefore, I would say yes: there is absolutely a need for new blood.

There are no magical solutions, new leaders do not equal sudden positive, because societies are always fragmented and divided and fight each other. That risk exists on both sides, that new leaders may improve things, but it can also be -if they are strong enough- we may find a lot of problems on both societies too. Nevertheless, I don’t think these current leaders are providing any more value at it. So the risk has to be taken, despite what I said.

What, do you think, would be the first step for the stuck peace process to start again?

I’ve always felt that the idea that Palestinians can a have a normal democratic electoral system while occupation remains, is false. Because the occupation creates so many strange, aberrant behavior patterns for the Palestinians. Any people, not only Palestinians, would not respond to normally. Checkpoints, control over people’s lifes, inhability to make decisions on most basic things in life, such as economics, very limited control over your future… do not equal the right basis for a democratic system.

But, and I blame the West here, it’s the West which mixes everything up. It’s Oslo [Accords of 1993] and the West, and half measures on occupation plus half measures on democracy… I don’t think it’s the right sequence. I think what needs to be done is the creation of a Palestinian state first, first! So, there is clarity on that, and then the Palestinians can go about running their own lifes, which is what an election is about, after all. I think we are still suffering of the assumptions of Oslo, twenty years on, which were wrong, in my view.

“I’ve always felt that the idea that Palestinians can a have a normal democratic electoral system while occupation remains, is false”

Would you stand for a two-state solution, as the UN recommends?

I think the two-state solution has become a slogan, and I think the one-state solution is a slogan. What matters to me, for the Palestinian people and for the Israeli people, is that a political solution is found that satisfies their core needs on both sides sufficiently, but not infinitely.

You cannot have everything, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You have to give stuff up. Giving stuff up, in my view, means because Israelis currently have a lot more than Palestinians, Israelis have to give things up. This is for me a given. And it’s not easy for Israelis for a million reasons, but they have to face that to have stable neighbours, Palestinians and beyond, they need to give things up.

Whether that plays out as a two-state or a one-state, or two-state plus…, or one-state minus…or a confederation. I don’t care. I can probably take a guess as how it is gonna play out, if it ever plays out, if the political will is there. But do I care about the ultimate form? No. What I care is that the peoples on both sides are satisfied sufficiently, not totally, because they won’t be.

So, is it likely to be the classical two-state? No. Is it gonna be one-state? No. Probably something in between.

And will we see it in our lifetimes?

I have a feeling you are younger than me. You might see it, I am unlikely to see it. But, may be, I might see progress.

>>>Follow SalamPlan – journalism against hate- on Twitter and Facebook. And check out the other languages you can read SP in HERE<<<

YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO READ:

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La entrada John Bell, former mediator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: “There is a kind of hijack of religion” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

Muhammad almost lost his life one day when he walked on the street with a small mobile phone in his pocket. It was the time when Daesh (also known as ISIS) had instilled its terror regime in Mosul, the city which got to be the terrorists most important stronghold in Iraq. The terrorists ‘police’ shouted at him from the distance. Neither the “normal” trousers Muhammad was wearing nor the mobile phone which they had not discovered yet, were permitted. He panicked.

“I began banging on the houses’ walls. I was so in fear, I didn’t realize they were not doors. I couldn’t breathe. If they searched me and they found my mobile, they would kill me”

“I began banging on the houses’ walls. I was so in fear, I didn’t realize they were not doors. I couldn’t breathe. If they searched me and they found my mobile, they would kill me”, he remembers now on the other side of the phone line from Mosul. He started to cough so loud, that other people began to gather around him to try and help him. They offered him water. Given the crowd that had come together, ISIS guards left. “Those people saved my life”, he says convinced.

“We want Christians to come back”

Today Muhammad is one of Sawaed al Mosuliya volunteers (Arms of Mosul), an NGO which has restored Saint Thomas church in the heart of Mosul’s city centre. The took out the rubble, cleaned up and reinstalled the light.

The terrorists destroyed the church, as well as the famous Al Noori mosque. Saint Thomas served as prison during ISIS regime. Muhammad explains the Christian temple means a lot to Mosul’s people after the horror they had to endure: “During the liberation battles in Mosul, there was no running water. The only source of water was an old well inside the church. This church was a source of life”.

“During the liberation battles in Mosul, there was no running water. The only source of water was an old well inside the church. This church was a source of life”

“Since I was a child, Muslim and Christian families used to visit each other for the religious feasts, such as Christmas. There was a church where we used to go to. I miss that, I want those traditions to come back”, Muhammad adds.

As for Ziad, the volunteers’ coordinator, he recalls that before the terrorists took the city, he shared life with his neighbours and friends without caring about the religion of one another: “It wasn’t an issue. We didn’t even know who was Christian”. But now he knows 15 families on his street and wants to rebuild their houses to help them come back.  

Why focusing on the houses of Christians, given that Daesh persecuted everyone, also Muslims? “Because tens of thousands of people who fled are coming back, but not even one Christian person who lived here has done the same”, he explains. Two of his best friends used to live in those houses and they call him almost every day to know how the situation is. “They want to come back, but they’re afraid”.

>>> You may also read: Three religions under the same roof: this is Berlin’s next revolution<<<

Their work restoring the historic Saint Thomas church, thanks to the financial support of USAID, was the first step to be able to use the temple again for a religious service. At the same time, it revealed a symbol of hope in the city being reborn. “When we published the pictures on internet, people from other parts of Mosul began asking where this church was. They wanted to visit it. Some of my Christian friends cried and thanked us”, Muhammad says.

“Since I was a child, Muslim and Christian families used to visit each other for the religious feasts, such as Christmas. There was a church where we used to go to. I miss that, I want those traditions to come back”

They had already planned an interreligious event in the church just before the coronavirus pandemic exploded, so it had to be postponed. Now there is a man from Erbil who goes from time to time sent by the Christian community of that city. He is finishing the electric work on the church. Ziad and Muhammad have seen how the neighbours of the area usually go to him to offer him some water or other kind of help.

The volunteers of Sawaed al Mosuliya were founded in June 2018, when they began cleaning up the rubble and rubbish of tens of houses. The founded a supermarket whose incomes go to the people in need. They also help orphans and take part in interreligious events hand in hand with Christians and Jazidis in favour of a peaceful together living. “We’re doing all we can so that everyone comes back. They’re all welcome”, Ziad underlines.

Bring back normality to defeat ISIS

When the terrorists took Mosul back in 2014, Ziad was doing his master, he had a shop and lived with his family. “Life was good. When Daesh arrived, their mission was to destroy life in the city and its residents. They forced me to flee to Turkey with my family. They took my house and my shop”.

Ziad estimates 25.000 homes were destroyed. Now he wants to “bring back normality as a way to defeat Daesh”. He got married one month ago, has a minimarket and his doing his PhD in Modern History at the Faculty of Education. He hopes to find a full-time job when he finishes his studies.

Muhammad had to close his mobile phone shop when Daesh arrived, and his Economics studies had to wat. Instead of graduating in 2015, when the terrorists dominated the city, he graduated in 2018. He stayed in the city, but his brothers -who worked in the media sector- had to flee to Europe and they have not seen each other since.

Both of them dream of a “stable and peaceful life” in their city. Together with other volunteers, they will go on cleaning up the rubble of war and the damage the terrorists left behind.

“We’re doing all we can so that everyone comes back. They’re all welcome”

>>>Follow SalamPlan – journalism against hate- on Twitter and Facebook. And check out the other languages you can read SP in HERE<<<

La entrada Muslims bring church back to life in Iraq after being destroyed by ISIS: “We want Christians to feel welcome” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

>>> Follow Salam Plan- ‘journalism against hate’ on Twitter and Facebook<<<

Trump said the 1st amendment -which stands for freedom of belief and speech- makes clear “that our rights do not come from our government; they come from God”. He regretted “80% of the world’s population live in countries where religious liberty is threatened, restricted or even banned”.

The percentage he cites comes from a report from the Pew Research Center in 2016, where this independent think tank also mentions Muslims being targeted in the United States and directly links this to the current present president of the country:

“In the United States, Muslims were the targets of derogatory rhetoric and proposed discrimination. In July, Republican presidential nominee Donald J. Trump criticized the parents of a Muslim soldier who was killed in Iraq (…). Later in the year, President-elect Trump appeared to stand by plans for a temporary ban on Muslim immigration to the United States and a proposed requirement that U.S. Muslims register in a database”, the report summary reads.

>>> You may also read: Alicia and Aladdin, the beautiful love story of a Catholic and a Muslim<<<

But Donald Trump’s speech on religious freedom this Monday at the UN ignored his rethoric and measures against Muslims: “As we speak, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Yazidis and many other people of faith are being jailed, sanctioned, tortured and even murdered, often at the hands of their own government, simply for expressing their deeply held religious beliefs. So hard to believe”.

He called upon all the countries of the world “to end religious persecution”, “repeal laws restricting freedom of religion and belief, protect the vulnerable, the defenceless and the oppressed”. The US president assured: “Protecting religious freedom is one of my highest priorities and always has been”.

“Repeal laws restricting freedom of religion and belief, protect the vulnerable, the defenceless and the oppressed”

What he did not mention was the “temporary ban” on Muslims he promised to implement if he became president and which finally has gotten a version of it for some Muslim majority countries plus Venezuela and North Korea after the judges declared his first travel ban illegal.

He recalled recent “evil attacks” against worshippers in sinagogues in the US, in mosques in New Zealand and churches in Sri Lanka and urged every nation “to increase the prosecution and punishment of crimes against religious communities”. “There cannot be greater crime than that”, he said.

>>> You may also read: Attacks against mosques are more usual than you might think: they are committed by anti-Muslim terrorists and also by groups like ISIS <<<

Trump announced a coalition of US businesses for the protection of “all faiths” in the workplace, although he did not go into detail. “True tolerance means respecting the right of all people to express their deeply held religious beliefs”, he pointed out before saying to the victims of religious persecution that the US “will always stay at your side”.

Last July Donald Trump held a short meeting with people who survived religious persecution worldwide. Sitting on his chair at the Oval Office and surrounded by them, he talked with them in front of the cameras (watch White House video).

The victims were grateful for the opportunity to be listened, like Farid Ahmed, a victim of the Christchurch attacks against Muslims who became known after publicly forgiving the terrorist. But there were also awkward moments during the meeting with Trump, such as when a Rohingya refugee asked him for solutions to go back home after being forced to flee to Bangladesh together with another 740,000 Muslims since 2017. “Where is that exactly?”, Trump asked. “Burma”, an official had to clarify (meaning the state nowadays known as Myanmar). Or like when he asked Nobel Peace Prize Nadia Murad why she obtained the award. She is a Yazidi woman survivor of ISIS genocide against this religious community who brought up attention worldwide about these mass killings, mainly in Iraq.

The law known as “Muslim ban” or “Travel ban” finally included countries which are not Muslim majority nations: North Korea and Venezuela. But it kept Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Iran among those with restrictions, including no travel at all for Syrians and North Korea people. Iraq and Sudan, which where among the countries in the first executive order, where finally dropped.

>>> Follow Salam Plan- ‘journalism against hate’ on Twitter and Facebook<<<

La entrada Trump in the UN: “Protecting religious freedom is one of my highest priorities” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

The country went through a long civil war which lasted from 1975 to 1990 and, although it still faces many challenges, it is often mentioned as an example where different religions have been coexisting for decades. In recent years, it has also become the country with the highest concentration per capita of refugees in the world, due to the war in neighbouring Syria.

Fadi Daou is a Maronite Catholic priest in Lebanon, where he chairs the Adyan Foundation, ‘adyan’ meaning ‘religions’. With a team of people from different faiths, the Foundation works to improve the interreligious understanding in the country and worldwide. Daou has contributed to international policymaking speaking at the United Nations, the European Parliament and to the Arab League. Salam Plan talked with him during his recent stay in Madrid this week to take part in a seminar on Lebanon at the cultural centre Casa Árabe.

Lebanon is many times mentioned as an example of coexistence of religions. Is there a real together living or does every community rather stay within the group they belong to?

When we say coexistence it’s about managing the plural identity of the Lebanese society in a positive way: on the cultural, legal level and political levels.

Lebanon has officially 12 Christian communities, 5 Muslim and one Jewish community that are officially recognized by the Constitution. Of course, there is also the freedom of religion and the existence of other religions, but these are the historical ones in Lebanon.

So when we speak about coexistence, definitely we are speaking about an inclusive way of living together without the domination of one party over others. This is a very delicate balance, which Lebanon kept searching throughout its history and it ended up in the civil war. Today Lebanon is looking again to redefine this balance.

“When we speak about coexistence, we are speaking about an inclusive way of living together without the domination of one party over others”

Would you say this balance is currently working?

This balance is never working 100%, no. It’s always somewhere between 50% and 100%. Today we have some major challenges. One of them comes from the consequences of the civil war, where we had direct conflict from people of different communities. Now the communities are more segregated than before , so we are fighting stereotypes, healing wounds and also building knowledge through education to ensure that the Lebanese society is attached to its shared values before the conflict.

Another challenge is the huge number of refugees living in Lebanon. We see today how much the refugee and immigration issue is challenging Europe, although the proportion of refugees is really non-significant in comparison to what is happening in Lebanon. You have less than 1% of refugees compared to the European population, whereas in Lebanon we have more than 30%. It’s challenging, but at least we are avoiding that it generates conflict, although it is being sometimes used in populist political discourse. But, globally, the Lebanese society demonstrated a huge capacity of hospitality and solidarity.

Other type of challenges are more on the legal level, where we are trying to enhance this situation based on real equality and respect of human dignity and human rights for all citizens.

Lebanon hosts around 1.5 million refugees in a country of 4.5 million Lebanese people. The majority of refugees are Syrians and there are also Palestinians. What lessons can Europe learn from Lebanon about hosting refugees?

I would say, first it is to fight and refuse all political manipulation, because the refugee situation is always a humanitarian and humanistic situation and not at all an ideological and political one. Sometimes politicians in Europe are raising the fear among the population, saying for example that “we are being invaded” by people from outside Europe or by Muslims… All these discourses are definitely against the fundamentals of human rights, which make Europe what it is. The richness of Europe is because it is a space where, we believe, it respects human rights and dignity.

“Europe should not be afraid from the changes which are already happening and its new plural identity. Today all societies are diverse and it should be dealt with in a very realistic way”

The second lesson, is our responsibility of solidarity between each other. We don’t know when we will have to leave. Thirdly and finally, Europe should not be afraid from the changes which are already happening and its new plural identity. Many European societies were used to think themselves as one cultural identity, but today all societies are diverse and they will become more and more diverse. It should be dealt with in a very realistic way.

Diversity is a resource of richness. My Foundation uses the slogan “Diversity builds unity”. The challenge is not to try to stop diversity or the fear of otherness, the challenge is how to make of this diversity a resource of richness and unity in society.

The arguments you are giving don’t seem to convince any of the voters of the European politicians you were talking about, so I was hoping you could tell me something really practical which you would apply for diversity to work.

The first example would be to make people need each other and work with each other and collaborate to face their common problems. We are working to avoid segregation.

On an educational level, [you need] to know each other, because ignorance is a source of fear.

There is another aspect related to Islam. It is important to promote the discourse of Muslim thinkers, scholars and public figures who totally endorse human rights standards and an inclusive approach of living together. Give them a voice. It also can help Europeans to see Islam is also diverse. It has its own challenges and problems, but there are many Muslims who are working on this and they deserve support.

“The laicism of France is not at all my model. I advocate for an inclusive model based on a secular political system, respecting diversity as well as the freedom and richness of each community”

You advocate for the separation of religion from politics. Would the laicism of France be your model?

Not at all. In fact, I don’t advocate for a separation, I advocate for an inclusive citizenship, which means that religion should not be the framework of living together. We need to establish a citizenship system that can recognize the diversity of religions but prevent religious authorities from interfering in politics.

It’s not the French model, it’s more an inclusive model based on a secular political system, but a system that is also inclusive to all diversity, respecting the freedom but also respecting the richness of each community and what it brings to societies.

Some people argue Islam cannot be democratic. What do you think?

Those people lack a historic perspective of democracy, because in the 19^th century Christianity and Catholicism were against democracy too. Any stigmatisation saying that Islam is not compatible with democracy is completely unrealistic, it’s not true. There are very good Muslims democrats in Lebanon and there are also Muslims who are against democracy.

“Any stigmatisation saying that Islam is not compatible with democracy is completely untrue. Some populist parties in Europe are against the values of democracy”

But I think some [non-Muslim] extremists here and even Europe, some populist parties are themselves against the values of democracy. It is true in many Muslim societies today that democracy is a challenge, but it is not about Islam, it is about interests and politics. The young generations are striving to build democracy in their countries.

So, I don’t think there is a religion which is more democratic than others; it’s about culture, about people, about the value system.

Do you think the rise of policies against Muslims in Europe and the United States are announcing a new form of Nazism?

I hope not. I think these waves of populism and extreme right parties are too serious not to be taken into consideration. It can one day lead to totalitarianism. We should remember that Hitler arrived to power democratically. The Western countries have to be very careful about this.

>>> Follow Salam Plan- ‘journalism against hate’ on Twitter and Facebook<<<

La entrada Fadi Daou, Lebanese priest: “There is no religion which is more democratic than others” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

He took part in a panel of scholars to present a program of interreligious dialogue among lawyers worldwide called “Abrahamic Forum”. Asked by Salam Plan whether he thinks Donald Trump is “ready for dialogue with Muslims”, Destro answered:

“Yes, I do. Part of the problem is there is so little knowledge of Islam. I work with Muslim groups in the United States all the time, almost every day. And certainly, the White House understood that when they asked me to do this job, so I see no contradiction whatsoever”. The professor denied further comment.

“Part of the problem is there is so little knowledge of Islam. I work with Muslim groups in the United States all the time, almost every day. And certainly, the White House understood that when they asked me to do this job, so I see no contradiction whatsoever”

Currently, Destro is waiting the approval of Congress to be Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, the post for which President Trump nominated him one month ago.

He is Director of the Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies and Law professor at the Catholic University of America in Washington DC. He is specialized in freedom of religion as well as civil rights, among other topics.

“Respect requires that we first understand each other as we are not as we wish the other one should be”

The “Abrahamic Forum” in which Destro takes part, is a program, where lawyers of different faiths -mainly Christian, Muslim and Jewish- and worldwide come together to debate and understand each other. They work on specific topics, like “the care of refugees”, and meet usually twice a year to discuss their findings.

“The goal is not to reach an agreement, but trying to understand each other,” he explained in his conference. “Respect requires that we first understand each other as we are not as we wish the other one should be”. The final goal is to “prevent and punish genocide”.

“When something goes wrong, you need to be able to pick up the phone and say: ‘Ali, what is happening over there?’”

Destro also pointed out that the reason for this forum is that “when something goes wrong, you need to be able to pick up the phone and say: ‘Ali, what is happening over there?’”. So, Trump can apparently rely on that if Robert Destro’s nomination is confirmed. The decision of Congress is expected to be taken in August.

WOCMES takes place every four years in a different city. This year it has been organized in Seville by the Three Cultures of the Mediterranean Foundation and about 3,000 researchers and experts from around 91 countries have registered to take part in this academic summit which will last until Friday, the 20^th of July.

In this very Congress there was a panel held by other US experts on Wednesday where they analysed “what is really new about the Trump era for Arab and Muslim Americans”, as the panel title reads. Salam Plan was also there. You may read more about that by clicking HERE.

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La entrada Trump is ready for a dialogue with Muslims, future Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights assures se publicó primero en Salam Plan.