Marmash herself is a Jordanian lawyer who has an in-depth knowledge of women’s legal rights in North Africa and the Middle East and was therefore recently invited by the Spanish Agency for International Development Cooperation (AECID) to take part in a set of conferences of women’s rights in Madrid.

She talked about “women who are afraid to tell their own family” that they are being a victim of gender violence, she talked about laws which oblige adult women to depend on a male figure to exercise their right for property -just as it occurred in Spain only some decades ago-, she exposed the wide persistence of child marriages, “an open secret”, and assured there were 40,000 cases in Morocco in 2017, and another 10,000 in Jordan.

For this leading lawyer, who declares herself a Muslim feminist, patriarchy is a common phenomenon to the misleading historic interpretations of all religions. “I believe all religions begin with fair standards for women and men and, throughout history, they get changed to favour men,” she says to Salam Plan.

The international NGO she directs, AWLN, has set the priority to establish the path for women to be able to “take part in the construction of their societies” ameliorating the civil legal system of the Arab countries. Samah Marmash has seen how more and more men in the region are getting on board in the fight for equality, although not as actively as she would wish.

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Which accomplishments for women’s rights would you highlight in the Arab countries for the last years and what are the main issues you still need to address?

There were so many success stories in the region. For example, in Palestine they have created an Alimony Bureau; so, if a woman gets divorced [and does not get the legal maintenance from her ex husband], you can go to the office and ask them to file a case and get your money, even if the husband is not paying. This is very good to empower women economically and to show men, the Government will go after you and not after the vulnerable person.

In Jordan, we started something [similar] last year and it is on this year’s budget. We are at the beginning of the road, but the good example is Palestine. And we took another good example of Morocco. In Morocco they have family courts, where they review cases of violence against women, family cases or religious topics as well. It is [another] good example, [which] we want to reflect in our country in Jordan for the family violence cases.

The main issues you need to look at now are gender violence then?

Yes, violence against women; the right of nationality, to reflect it on their children [who for now cannot adopt the nationality of their mother in places like Jordan]; to stop child marriages… it’s for all of the region: North Africa or the Middle East. It’s a disease that is currently there. These are the main topics we should highlight now.

“Child marriages are a disease in North Africa and the Middle East that we need to stop”

What is the role of men in the Middle East in the fight for women’s rights?

They didn’t have a role at all. Actually, they were against the feminist movement; not all of them, but a large and good number of them. Recently, in the past ten years, we got them on board. We knew how important it was to make them our partners, because we cannot change attitudes if we work on one part of the community forgetting the other half.

When we started to work with them as partners, we had their voices with us. But they are not as large of an amount as you would wish. Most of them know that this is the trend nowadays, so [they] may talk with you about the same issues, they may try to show you that they are feminists, but in fact -whether they are helping or not- they are reflecting their attitudes on their policies, even in their homes, which is how you know if [their commitment] is true or not.

So, there are large voices of men who are supporting [the feminist movement], but not so many are truly on the ground. At least, we have a good start to work with them. Actually, they are helping us. In our Parliament in Jordan, for example, we have a few men who do believe in women’s rights which need to be reflected in the laws. In Lebanon, we [do also] have a good amount of fair men. In Syria now, nothing is clear yet.

“The attitudes of men on their policies, even in their homes, is how you know if their commitment to women’s rights is true or not”

During your conference, you talked about the influence of sharia on the rights or lack of them for women in the Middle East. To which extent would you say Islam is the reason of patriarchy in the region? Or is it tradition or…?

I believe all religions begin with fair standards for women and men and, throughout history, they get changed to favour men. It is not only in Arab countries. Europeans used to have it, but they used civil rights to change this idea.

We are still suffering from it, because after all the wars we have been through, we have not been able… the bad effect of wars is to give you traditions that you don’t have, ideas that you don’t have, bring you backwards, not forward… So, what we have is mostly in the name of religions, but it’s not us, it’s not religion. It’s the global force to keep persons backwards.

“I believe all religions begin with fair standards for women and men and, throughout history, they get changed to favour men”

You define yourself as a Muslim feminist.

Yes, and nowadays we have feminists from all the religions which are in the Arab region. Throughout the history we used to have Muslim feminist women, but the history does not highlight their efforts. For example, Mohammed’s first wife used to defend women’s rights, that is why she supported him.

But then again, this example refers to one of his wives, something which people often reject or do not understand.

Yes, exactly. But during her lifetime he did not marry any other woman. He did after her death, and according to our religion, he did so, because he wanted to gather so many people. For example, he wanted to show that it is good to marry a widow, so he got married to a widow. According to our law, there was a reason for every marriage, according to Q’ran it is not preferably to be married to more than one [woman], but there are certain circumstances and hard conditions where you can do so.

But, again, people change religions according to their needs: if you ask one sheikh, he will tell you ‘to have more than one wife is good’ and if you ask another religious man, he will tell you ‘no, there were conditions in the Q’ran under which you can do this’. Religions are always like that.

Samah Marmash, executive director of the Arab Women’s Legal Network. © Salam Plan

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La entrada “There are large voices of men in the Arab region supporting the feminist movement, but not so many are truly on the ground” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

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They will stay in the Spanish capital only for some weeks, due to the birth of the baby, as Alicia’s family lives there. But the couple’s home is in Luxembourg, where both work in the financial sector. When they met, did they think they would end up like this: married, with a daughter and living in the Grand Duchy? , the journalist asks. They look at each other and laugh. Their’s is a real story of love at first sight. Although the plan was to stay in Morocco, where they met and where Aladdin is from.

Alicia is from Madrid (Spain) and was in Casablanca (Morocco) finishing her master’s degree in banking and financial markets that she studied there. Her former professor Maite called her one day and asked whether she had something to do, recalls Alicia. Luckily enough, she did not have any plans for that evening, because otherwise she would not have been able to go to the dinner that her teacher organized that day with more alumni, and she would not have met Aladdin.

Alicia’s professor asked her whether she had something to do. Luckily enough, she did not, because otherwise she would not have met Aladdin

He was a student of the first class of that master’s degree she was completing six years later. As soon as they were introduced, the crush between each other began. Alicia’s smile conquered him… also her French accent, the language they share. She was fascinated by the serenity and maturity of a man who gave her good advice when she was lost about which traineeship to choose. “I advised her to stay in Morocco,” Aladdin laughs. He asked her phone number to Alicia and they started to go out together.

Almost four years later they continue laughing without stop, accomplices. Alicia López is now 29 years old and Aladdin Bennouna is 34. She is Catholic and he is Muslim.

When they were starting to know each other, Alicia remembers that she “liked to ask” things about Islam “to know where she was getting herself into”, because she was not an “expert” of her partner’s religion and did not trust things she found on the Internet.

Alicia’s smile conquered Aladdin… also her French accent. She was fascinated by the serenity and maturity of a man who gave her good advice when she was lost

“We gradually got to know each other on that aspect, too. Both are religions that can be complemented, that have points of convergence. I realized the important thing was what I felt for Aladdin, the values​ he has, which are very similar to mine. To be together, God willing, all your life, you need to find your soul mate and, look, it has been precisely with a person of another religion, from another country, but I am delighted, ” she says.

“Respect for the parents and family”, solidarity, not lying, God as a creator and protector… are some of the values cited by of them as their bond. They also share more mundane things, of course. They love to go to a good restaurant from time to time and enjoy travelling together. They recommend Peru and Chile, the destinations of their honeymoon.

“I realized the important thing was what I felt for Aladdin, the values​ he has, which are very similar to mine”

— Alicia

“I’m not gonna change you. I’m not going to force you to change to my religion, that’s not Islam either”

— Aladdin

Aladdin had no doubts about the difference in religion. “No, because I’m not gonna change you. I’m not going to force you to change to my religion, that’s not Islam either, ” he explains. “I respect her religion a lot, when she prays at home or goes to church I go with her and there’s no problem.” At home everyone prays separately and Aladdin likes to see his wife “close to God”.

The marriage proposal was a traditional one, in the presence of both families. “The surprise effect came (before), when he asked me ‘what ring do you like the most?'” , laughs Alicia. Knowing why they were going to meet did not make the moment less emotional: “Aladdin gave a speech in front of everyone and we all ended up crying,” recalls his wife. And that despite the fact that he improvised what he said.

Alicia and Aladdin’s wedding celebrated joining two cultures together. Family pictures

Alicia says that her parents have always granted her the power to make her own decisions and had no problem at all with the wedding. “My parents have been living a lot in Arab countries. My father (also) was assigned (as a diplomat) in Mauritania, Senegal, Morocco … I think that contributes a lot to open minds, ” she says.

Aladdin’s parents were also happy with the wedding. “And yes, look: there is a difference in religion, but in our religion you can marry a woman who believes in a ‘religion of heaven’, who is not an atheist or a Buddhist … Because in the Muslim religion you also have to believe [in a certain way] in the other religions, ” he explains.

“The mistake is to mix politics and religion. (And) of course migrants are to adapt to the laws of the country. Nor should these laws favour one religion over another”

— Aladdin

They married in 2017. The civil wedding was in Spain, and the most festive part was in Morocco, sharing “the richness of Moroccan culture” with the guests, says Alicia.

She believes that hate speech coming from politicians such as those of the Spanish Vox party are mainly due to what she calls a “climate of instability” at the border areas of Morocco and Spain because of what she considers a mismanagement of illegal immigration. “The mistake is to mix politics and religion. (And) of course migrants are to adapt to the laws of the country. Nor should these laws favour one religion over another, ” Aladdin suggests.

He likes to speak to her baby-daughter about politics when he gets to sleep her, because singing is not his thing, he admits. “I tell her: ‘let’s see, what do you want to talk about’? Brexit? “, he laughs. “Sometimes she does not like it and we change the subject,” he continues laughing. Lullabies are left to the mother.

“Amelia is Muslim, but she will grow up in an environment where nobody will say: ‘This is not that way’. There will be an atmosphere of respect and understanding of the two religions”

— Alicia

Little Amelia is Muslim, something that her parents already had talked about when they decided to start a family. But Christmas and the Festival of Sacrifice will be celebrated in their house equally, because they belong to the traditions and cultures of his grandparents, her mother explains. “She will grow up in an international environment, where nobody will say: ‘This is not that way’. There will be an atmosphere of respect and understanding of the two religions,” says Alicia.

Amelia has not woken up during the entire interview, nor when her parents have taken her in their arms to appear with them on some pictures. She is quiet and calm, while her caring parents cannot help but doting lovingly on her.

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The happy couple goes for a walk with their baby in Madrid. © Salam Plan

La entrada Alicia and Aladdin, the beautiful love story of a Catholic and a Muslim se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

Abdellah Boussouf is a Moroccan historian and since 2007 he leads the Council placed by king Mohammed VI of Morocco in Rabat. His latest work (published in Arab, French and Spanish for now) offers a compilation of essays in which he reviews historical episodes, Quranic quotes and texts of the Muslim prophet Mohammed to demonstrate that Islam is a religion of peace and respect for the ones who are different. He talked with Salam Plan at Casa Árabe (Arab House) in Madrid about this call for dialogue and a good coexistence.

In your book you write about historical moments in which different religions and cultures lived in peace. What has changed so much that it makes this so difficult in some cases nowadays?

Today we live a very difficult situation of Islam in the world. We have two extremes: the extreme of Islamophobia, racism (and) we have the other extreme: fundamentalism, radicalization and even terrorism. This book is a reminder for those who try to manipulate Islam, who try to instrumentalize it from both sides. It is meant to tell them that it is not Islam what they use, but lies about Islam. Islam has nothing to do with terrorism or fear. So Islam is not here to invade Europe or to be an element of clash with Westerners.

Islam is a religion like any other, a religion of peace, tolerance and coexistence. The historical description of fourteen centuries shows that Islam has never known terrorist movements against each other. It has never been in a situation of conflict related to a religious or philosophical conviction.

And why is there now so much Islamophobia and Islamist radicalism?

As far as Islamophobia is concerned, there is an unjustified fear. This fear is due to a total ignorance of Islam, today in our societies we know Islam very, very little. And we are afraid of the unknown. It was a great intellectual of Palestinian origin named Edward Said who spoke of the “shock of ignorances”. We are living that moment now.

As for the Muslims, in the case of those who claim to use Islam to perpetrate fear and terrorism, they have nothing to do with Islam. For us -I come from Morocco-, the King delivered a speech aimed at the Moroccan nation and the whole world in which he said that “the authors of a terrorist act are not Muslims”. Therefore, there is a manipulation of one side and the other: either for Islam to scare or to justify horrible acts of terrorism.

You claim that Islam is a peaceful religion, but Islamophobes and radical Islamists believe it is synonymous with war. What would you answer?

Islam has never been a religion of war. In this book, I start with Quranic texts that clearly say: “Whoever kills a soul, it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one soul, it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.” Islam takes life and not death, contrary to what we are told today by these factions, which -fortunately- are not the majority and who preach hatred to others. The extremes meet, they feed each other.

“Terrorism has no nationality or religion”

In the recent attacks in Catalonia, the terrorists were of Moroccan origin (although all raised in Spain) and analysts tried to find in that origin the source of their motivations to kill. Do you think that is part of the explanation?

First: terrorism has no nationality or religion. They were of Moroccan origin but lived in Spain and were, mostly, Spanish citizens. And also the other perpetrators of the attacks in Belgium and France, European citizens.

I think that this is the mistake, that of trying to attach the responsibility to a country, an ethnic origin or a religion. I advocate a shared responsibility, we are all responsible today for this phenomenon that threatens us all. Moroccans have also paid a high price; and in (all) Africa, and in other places.

In another book, “L’origine” (The Origin), I try to explain why. It is a set of elements. I don’t think there is a magic recipe to say “this is the one responsible”, nor is there a single solution. There is a manipulation of religion, but there are also social reasons that must be addressed, because we must not allow social problems to absorb young people and become easy prey for the death recruiters.

“Islam and the universal common” is the title of the book you are presenting now. What three things would you highlight that Muslims, Jews and Christians have in common?

They are the three monotheistic religions, we worship the same God. A great Jesuit, Pierre de Chardin, said: “Everything that rises, converges”. So we converge on the same God.

Islam is a religion like any other. I think there are many things that unite us and very few things that separate us. We adore the same God, we have acts of adoration that are present in the three religions.
As believers we have to face the great challenges of our century. Humanity today is threatened by climate change, wars, family… In the past, Christians, Muslims and Jews contributed to the development of civilization, especially in Spain.

Andalusia is spoken of as the “paradise on earth”, where the three religions coexisted perfectly and in a very positive way. Jews, Muslims and Christians, who handed over Toledo, Cordoba, Seville and Sicily in Italy, but also Fez and Marrakech… history has many examples of living together.

The thirteenth century saw the defeat of Navas de Tolosa (Spain) in 1212. There were 1,100 peace and trade treaties between the two shores of the Mediterranean at a time when there were no communication media like today. There was much exchange and fluidity between the two shores of the Mediterranean. Despite current technologies, today we have not reached this level.

“Media only speak when there are terrorist attacks, so we leave the field free for the xenophobes”

You worked for intercultural dialogue in France and Belgium, two countries with good electoral results for anti-Muslim political parties. How -do you think- that Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders, leaders of the extreme right in the respective countries, are successful?

There are several factors. They are trying to cultivate fear of Islam, but there are other reasons: economic, social problems. Marine Le Pen has no plans for the French society, it has no solution for the crisis in that country. So scaring voters is the best way to attract a certain number of them, who sometimes lose confidence in the political apparatus.

I also think that media play a very important role: they only talk about trains that arrive late, they only speak when there are attacks, when there is an imam who makes a small statement … but when there are things that unite all the believers, all cultures, they don’t publish it. I created many initiatives in France of interculturality, interreligiousness, but nobody talks about that. Thus we leave the field free for the xenophobes, for the fascists.

Do you think these are the same problems for which France and Belgium have seen the followers of Daesh grow?

Yes, in some neighborhoods there are many problems: young people who don’t go to school, who are jobless, whith ignorance of religion, identity crisis … We have not done much to solve this, both the host countries and those of origin. We have not done what is necessary to accompany them, to allow these young people to access their identity and find a certain balance. We leave them alone. And, obviously, the fundamentalists, the terrorists recruit in these environments, where they (the youngsters) live in situations of fragility.

And when you talk to the authorities about doing something in favour of dialogue, what do they say?

Many people in Europe speak of ‘deradicalization’ as a system to deal with this phenomenon of Daesh and other groups, to which I do not give much credit. It takes a lot of work, mentalities and all the actors must work in the same direction. From the family, society, school, political parties, the media and the academic world … we should all pull together in the same direction. We face human beings and we must address them in their entirety: (taking into account the) material, psychic and intellectual (aspects).

What would you say to an extremist, be it Islamophobic or fundamentalist Islamist, if you had one in front of you?

I would tell him: “I’m like you. I’m a human being like you, you should not hate me or kill me, because killing me is like killing yourself, and by hating me, you hate yourself. We need each other, we won’t be able to continue living on this planet if we try to reject each other, the only alternative we have is to respect each other and work together”.

La entrada Abdellah Boussouf: “To the extremists: ‘Do not hate me, because it would mean hating yourself” se publicó primero en Salam Plan.

Of the nearly 30,000 people who left their country -the so-called ‘foreign fighters’, at least 5,600 citizens or residents of 33 countries have returned home; 1,700 of them, to Europe. These are data of the new report Beyond the Caliphate; Foreign fighters and the threat of returnees published by the The Soufan Center, an organization devoted to the analysis of global security and emerging threats based in New York.

Most of the foreign fighters of ISIS or Daesh are originally from the former Soviet republics (more than 8,700), followed by people from the Middle East (more than 7,000) and in the third place, from Western Europe (more than 5,700). At present there are at least 15 European countries – including the Balkans – that have recorded the return of these suspected terrorists to their countries.

Although the United Kingdom is the third European state in number of foreign fighters, it is the one that more returnees has registered: 425, according to data of February of 2017. That is 25% of a total of 1,700.

On the other hand, France is the European country which produced more foreign fighters: it estimates that 1,900 citizens or residents in their country travelled to Iraq and Syria to join Daesh on the ground of their supposed caliphate; at least 271 of them have returned, according to data from last August. Germany is the second country most affected by this phenomenon, with approximately 915 foreign fighters and a large number of returnees in Europe: approximately 300, according to March figures.

It is important to note that not all those who are counted as foreign fighters managed to arrive at their destination, as on many occasions the Turkish, Moroccan or other authorities prevented them from doing so thanks to the cooperation with their countries of origin.

France is the European country that has frustrated more attempts of this emigration: more than 2,600. Behind it are Belgium (over 1,500), UK (about 1,200) and Germany (over 650).

The returnees pose a “huge challenge” for security and law enforcement but most of the attacks claimed by Daesh both on European soil and in the rest of the world were not carried out by returnees

Richard Barrett, author of the report and former director of global counter-terrorism at MI6, says that returnees pose a “huge challenge for security and law enforcement entities”. But at the same time he acknowledges that the facts show that in most of the attacks claimed by Daesh both on European soil and in the rest of the world were not carried out by returnees, the same argument Raffaello Pantucci, counterterrorism expert of RUSI think tank, recently pointed out on Salam Plan.

“They generally appear to have had a stronger desire to join something new rather than destroy something old. As a result, returnees have, so far, proved a more manageable problem than initially anticipated,” Barrett says. And reminds that last September, the French authorities spoke of a decrease in the ratio of returnees.

Barrett, who also was UN coordinator of its al-Qaida/Taliban monitoring team from 2004 to 2013, points out as well that among those who return there are also repentant or disenchanted people, because they did not find what they were looking for when they followed the promise of the alleged caliphate of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

“Returnees have, so far, proved a more manageable problem than initially anticipated (but) states have not found a way to address the problem of returnees. Most are imprisoned, or disappear from view”

Nevertheless, Barret warns that the defeats on the ground and loss of terrain- especially now, following the recent fall of Raqqa, the ‘capital’ of the terrorists – will lead its leaders to put more emphasis on supporting terrorist attacks outside Syria and Iraq, also profiting from the returnees. There are also women and children among them, by the way.

In his report, the analyst warns: “States have not found a way to address the problem of returnees. Most are imprisoned, or disappear from view. There will be a need for more research and information sharing to develop effective strategies to assess and address the threat.”

La entrada 1,700 ISIS members have returned to their home in Europe after migrating to the ‘caliphate’ se publicó primero en Salam Plan.